Ahead of Assembly elections in Telangana, the president of the Vanchit Bahujan Agadhi, Prakash Ambedkar, in conversation with The Siasat Daily reveals his plans in the state and across the country. He talks about his relationship with the AIMIM, Congress and likelihood of allying with BRS.
Siasat: It has been more than seven long decades since India’s independence. Where does the Dalit community stand today?
Prakash Ambedkar: Except for education, they seem to be where they were. Education wise, they have progressed — half the Dalits have progressed and half have been left out. To classify further, those who left the Hindu fold progressed. Conversion has basically helped them in doing away with mental slavery.
Siasat: What is your take on the grand opposition alliance, INDIA?
PA: INDIA is yet to mature. Two meetings have taken place — one in Patna and one in Bangalore. The seriousness which should have been there is missing. They are at least seven or eight Assembly seats where the by-poll needs to take place before September.
The same goes for the Parliament, where there are three or four seats where the sitting members have expired in February or March. The six-month deadline for by-polls ends on September 30, and the Election Commission is going on with them. That is the catch here.
INDIA, as a front has, either missed this or is not taking it into consideration. The seriousness is yet to come in. There are differences between the TMC and Congress, between Akhilesh (Samajwadi Party) and Congress, and then between AAP and Congress.
These are some of the issues that have to be trashed at the earliest so that there is cohesiveness between INDIA allies. Unless the cohesiveness is not there, they will not be able to take on the BJP.
Let’s take the case of NCP vs Amit Shah in the House. They are very well informed, have their statics with them, and are very fast in demolishing things. The same speed has to be demonstrated by INDIA.
Siasat: What do you think INDIA’s biggest challenge will be against BJP?
PA: Setting up their own playground and not playing on RSS-BJP’s turf. They should develop their own playground with their own narratives and issues, and invite BJP to that ground.
Siasat: In Maharashtra VBA joined hands with the Shiv Sena (UBT), which has a history of being anti-minority. What pushed you to join hands with them?
PA: See there are two questions here. Bal Thackeray as an individual, and Bal Thackeray as the party chief. He took an anti-minority and anti-reservation stance and he followed whatever suited him. He did deter from saying anything to anybody. He just followed it because he said this is ‘paying me and giving me power so why should I leave it?’
Coming back to Uddhav, he is going back to his grandfather’s line of reforming the Hindu religion. That is where my grandfather and Udhhav’s grandfather, Keshav Sitaram Thackeray, worked together for a very long period. Since Uddhav follows the same policy of reforming the Hindu religion, it has become a ground for us to come together.
Siasat: Telangana CM K Chandrashekar Rao is attempting to enter Maharashtra with BRS. Do you think it will have an impact, if yes, what will it be?
PA: He will need one regional partner from Maharashtra to make an impact. Talking of politics, the blackmailing that we see by state and national political leaders is now being done by the masses. Yes, there has been a change in the life of the farmers as far as Telangana is concerned.
And therefore, the success of BRS is only in the border area. Only if he gets support in Central Maharashtra, then I would say yes, people are behind him.
As I read the situation, the large gathering for KCR’s Maharashtra meeting is simply because people are blackmailing us (Maharashtra leaders) that if you don’t give us what we want, there is another leader (KCR), and we will go behind him. That is the situation in Nanded, Solahapur and Pandharpur.
Even if he holds a meeting in Pandharkawada and areas bordering Nizamabad, it will be a huge success. Because a Maharashtra farmer is seeing the change taking palace in Telangana farmer’s life. He would like the change to take place in his life as well. Therefore, it is a ‘blackmailing system’. If BRS doesn’t have partners in Maharashtra, I am doubtful that this gathering will convert into votes.
Siasat: You mentioned in an interview that you are willing to talk to KCR for an alliance. But you have joined hands with UBT. How will both alliances work out?
PA: See. The alliance with with Uddhav Thackery’s Shiv Sena in Maharashtra. And one meeting took place between KCR and Uddhav as well. What transpired there, nobody knows! But one meeting has taken place. The bigger point here is these political parties don’t want BJP to continue in the Center. Unless there is some common point within INDIA, their staying together will also become problematic.
Siasat: The VBA has joined hands with the Shiv Sena (UBT), which is now a part of the INDIA alliance. Does that mean you are willing to work with the Congress?
PA: We are in alliance with Shiv Sena and it will continue. Now, it is the congress and NCP that have to work an alliance with us. As I have said we are open to an alliance with all those fronts who are looking to oppose the BJP in 2024 elections.
Siasat: So are you open to joining INDIA?
PA: Yes. Very well. If they invite us, we will join them.
Siasat: You have praised KCR’s welfare schemes and models, especially for Dalits. However, his critics accuse him of appeasing upper-caste Hindus as well. He had also promised to have Dalit CM, however, his cabinet does not consist of a single Dalit minister. As a tall leader of the community. How do you see this?
PA: Minister or a development? We have to make a choice. Development is making a change in (the life of) a large number of people while minister holds one post. As I know, being in Parliament for more than 15 years, a minister cannot change anything unless he is at the centre of power.
A Dalit minister is more or less dictated by the PM as to what is to be done and what is not. Therefore, I think the shift that is taking place in making a Schedule Caste and Schedule Tribe a development programme. I think that the larger agenda should be supported.
The masses are gaining rather than just one individual becoming a minister. Having just one Dalit in power doesn’t change the whole equation. You need the power to change the whole equation.
Siasat: In one of your recent interviews, you said that if BRS had started its expansion a year ago, it would be in a better position. There was a ground for building an alternative earlier, you said. Please elaborate.
PA: Yes, it is too late. Within the next two and a half or three months, we will be facing the parliamentary elections. That is my reading of the situation. If you lose the state, you cannot get the Center.
In this backdrop, I think the parliamentary elections will be earlier than the state elections.
As I said, Rajasthan, Haryana, Madhya Pradesh and Chattisgarh were open for a third front to come up. To fill those spaces there is no time now. Therefore, I said that he has missed his bus of becoming an alternative national leader or an alternative to INDIA itself.
Siasat: Your party is being seen as a prospective alliance partner for BRS in Maharashtra. How likely are you to extend your support to BRS and on what conditions?
PA: We can’t put the cart before the horse!
Siasat: Will VBA contest the upcoming Telangana polls? If yes, what role do you see VBA playing in state politics? Would you form an alliance with BRS?
PA: It is high time that the Ambedkarites make their presence felt in all states. So, we are not only working in Telangana, but I am helping groups in Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Haryana. Very soon a group will come up in Punjab. I will be lending my hand to them also. Even in Uttar Pradesh, we have started building an alternative to the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP).
We are definitely looking at Telangana polls for the upcoming election.
Whoever is against BJP-RSS… we are open to an alliance with them. Let’s say that in 2024 our target is to see that the BJP-RSS does not come to power.
Along with that, we are also trying now to see that the Adivasis and Schedule Caste have some leaders who can articulate. Because at the present stage, they do not have anyone who can articulate. Neither do the Muslims have such a leadership at present.
We are now trying to build leadership and also help some Muslim organisations to have a political face in some states so that they become a pan-India face in the long run.
Siasat: What is VBA’s agenda, what issues will you raise in the run-up to the polls?
PA: One is Industrialisation for the marginalised class. Another is based on certain industries which can be kept exclusively for the small and tiny sectors For example, Agro industries, and banning MNCs from entering that sector. The distribution of wealth and raising industrial leadership is where we are going to concentrate, That brings me back to the Telangana issue.
For funds earmarked for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, realignment needs to be done. The funds have to be spent for their social economic development.
Take the case of the Muslims, there is Zakat. In the month of Ramzan, every Muslim is to pay a percentage of their yearly income. They just give it to somebody like a maulvi or muezzin or some institutions. There is no collection system.
If you quantify the amount given by a Muslim business class, it is very huge. If that is properly collected and spent for rent or other things, the government need not spend on Muslim education. And from these funds, development can take place.
There are many things that can be channelised, organised and put in a proper perspective so that the community and society develop as a whole.
The next issue is that of farm labours. Farm labour is one class if they are made economically stronger, they become the purchasing class. Once you have the purchasing class then you have industrial development taking place.
At the present stage, the middle class, as quantified by Manmohan Singh to about 22 crores… taking it as a base mark, we say that this class is not a purchasing class. They are a satisfied class. Their wants, needs and even luxury is satisfied. Therefore they are not the buying class.
Economically, we have landed ourselves in the areas of the US, Russia, England, France and other countries.
Therefore what happens in the US, France, and England is that if there is no buying they have a recession. The same is happening in India. Only because we are not able to raise the 38 percent of the population living below the poverty line.
If we take five percent of the population living BPL and they are brought above the poverty line, they become the purchasing class.
There your economy revives and survives. India is totally different from Europe as far as the economy is concerned. Therefore these are things which need to be put across. And I think we are in a better position to do it because we belong to the have-nots of the country.
Siasat: What has been the most frequently asked question to you in recent times?
PA: The question is “Why we are not tying up with Congress?” It is basically a one-sided love affair. We want to go with Congress but Congress is not ready to come along with us. So now Congress has to say politically why they are not ready to come with us.
Siasat: What did Ambedkar’s alliance with the Muslim League achieve? In the same vein, what do you think your previous alliance with AIMIM achieved?
PA: If you see, with the Muslim League, the alliance was in the second round table conference. That was a totally different alliance between two intellectuals and two honest persons. When it came to AIMIM, let me put it across, he (Asaduddin Owaisi) missed his bus to being the second Jinnah.
The present situation is that the Muslims themselves believe that the Hindus will not vote for them. We see that they won in a constituency in which neither Congress nor BJP could defeat the Sena-BJP alliance seven times. It was Shiv Sena who won that constituency.
And AIMIM in that constituency which was considered most difficult by Congress and NCP. And for the first time, the narratives set by both communities that the Hindus will not for them were shattered.
There were nearly about five Muslim candidates who got nearly fifty thousand votes. Despite that the AIMIM candidate votes.
And there he missed a very big opportunity, to become a second Jinnah. He just walked out of it (the alliance) during the Assembly elections.
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