“I first found him to be rather rude, but over time I have come to realise that he is a good-hearted man,” remarked one of the 119 Congress workers who is a part of the Bharat Jodo Yatra spearheaded by Rahul Gandhi. The worker in question was talking about ex-JNU student activist, Kanhaiya Kumar.
At the rally in Hyderabad, Kumar was one of the Congress’s big names. He tried his best not to halt. When asked if an interview was possible, he simply said, “Ji bilkul, chalte-chalte baat karte hain par aapko thoda tez chalna hoga (Yes of course, we can talk as we walk but for that you will have to pick up pace).”
Kumar will be criss-crossing across the country with Rahul Gandhi as part of the Kerala MP’s initiative to bind the country against the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party, headed by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
Siasat.com caught up with Kumar in Hyderabad, and in a free-wheeling interview, the ex-Communist Party of India (CPI) leader spoke about his student leader (from Jawaharlal Nehru University) days to his political journey to the Congress today.
Excerpts from the interview
For the lay observer of India’s political landscape, Kanhaiya has changed significantly. He isn’t the JNU students’ union president hailing from the All India Student Federation (AISF). The boyish charm fades, giving way to a sharper, keen eyed, more determined politician. Despite the obvious change in physicality, Kanhaiya remarks that he is still the same.
Kumar: “There has been no change. Jawaharlal Nehru delivered the first speech at the founding conference of AISF. I have always been critical of every party/ideology whenever there was a need for it. Being critical is the basic responsibility of any conscious homosapien. I held the view even back then (during JNU days) that Congress party is the best party and has played a role in National building. There are always positives and negatives though. I have been critical of the 1984 Sikh riots and the Emergency.”
You have said until quite recently that Gandhi matters more than Lenin. In an interview with Aaj Tak, you are seen vehemently condemning Stalin and Mao. How has Gandhi impacted your political process?
Kumar: I am not alone in saying this. Ho Chi Minh (Vietnamese communist leader) has said that he is influenced by Gandhi. So did Nelson Mandela. These are the leaders who truly fought for emancipation. The objective reality is that Lenin wouldn’t work in India. Communist leader K Madhavan identified as a Gandhian-Marxist. The truth is Gandhian practices are more reliable and applicable for Indian political conditions.
What about the left leaders you admired in your student days? Has the admiration of the left fizzed out?
Kumar: I am still comfortable saying “Stalin murdabad” (Down with Stalin). He was never a hero of mine. When you are part of the left, you get painted in one colour. Mao was never a hero and neither was Stalin.
Who are your heroes?
Kumar: Lenin, Gandhi, Bhagat Singh, Karl Marx. I never admired Mao and Stalin and speaking about India, I could never appreciate the Naxal movement. Could never do it. There is a fashionable kind of ‘studio Left’ which clings to this thought process. I have never aligned with the Left which holds a glass of champagne in hand and discusses socialism.
Your co-student leader from JNU, Umar Khalid has been in prison for over two years under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act (UAPA). You haven’t significantly commented on it.
Kumar: This is not about one person alone. Today I was reading about how journalist Siddique Kappan was denied bail. Bail is a basic fundamental right of any prisoner. I am just talking about the law here. It is one thing to not agree with someone’s political views. It is a whole another thing to throw someone behind bars for it.
Your PhD research was on The Process of Decolonisation and Social Transformation in South Africa. How much has your academics shaped your politics?
Kumar: Education has definitely helped. But praxis and academic work are two highly distinct kinds of work. I still look up to Mandela whom I read a lot about while writing my thesis on South Africa. However, that understanding is very different from comprehending the politics of Begusarai.
You draw heavily from history. You speak of Gandhi, Godse, Stalin, Lenin, Mandela, Ambedkar. In that vein, how do you view what is popular called the saffronisation of history?
Kumar: Knowing the right history is very important. Right history is different from rightist history. (smiles) The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) highlights two facts and hides three. They will discuss Dr Ambedkar’ views on Pakistan but not discuss his 22 pratigyas (pledges). If anyone reads Ambedkar’s 22 pratigyas (22 Buddhist vows), there will today be a sedition case against them. BJP highlights and hides selectively to communalise history.
Saare raajaon ne mandir tode the, sabhi dharm ke raajaon ne tode. (Several kings broke temples, kings of different faiths.) But if you choose to talk selectively about Qutb Minar alone, you are ignoring a larger context.
Why is the Congress’ Bharat Jodo Yatra of any relevance today?
I think the public knows the answer to this question. Even those who criticised Congress are now understanding its merit. Congress has ruled the country since the formation of the Republic. They have achieved some progress, done some not very favourable things. But what is the objective condition in front of us today? That objective condition today is what is important. I have a friend who once asked me how I felt in Congress. I said that that wasn’t important. It mattered how she felt in India. She said, “unsafe, insecure.” I asked her what the solution was.
Congress has numbers. Regional parties don’t. If you want to save the constitutional ethos and principles of the Constitution, regional parties don’t have the capacity to do.
Telangana chief minister K Chandrashekar Rao (KCR) is trying to build an anti-BJP front with other regional parties.
Kumar: I have seen how that works. I come from North India and I have seen the situation. We have to understand the objective condition, again. The minute a regional party’s source of money fizzes out, there will be an Enforcement Directorate (ED) raid on them. What will they do then?
Even West Bengal CM Mamata Banerjee said, “RSS is a very good organisation.” For today’ climate, you need a leadership which fought against the British rule. Be it ED or CBI, they will stand well. India can never accept any extremist view either. Which is why Gandhi matters, and the Congress matters.
The clear shift in Kanhaiya Kumar is there to witness. The JNU student activist, academic bluntness is out, a hopeful Congress leader is in. The communist now swears by Mahatma Gandhi even as he wonders how the ‘Father of the Nation’ spoke to masses in distant villages.
